tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8816095773055947006.post948633486926855586..comments2023-10-19T05:44:05.251-04:00Comments on The Original Bean: On Religion, Again, Sooner than I Expected (edited for clarity)Jenehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02738704968427929427noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8816095773055947006.post-43147850704841178712011-04-12T08:02:07.656-04:002011-04-12T08:02:07.656-04:00I was raised as a Southern Baptist, my husband rai...I was raised as a Southern Baptist, my husband raised Methodist, and at this point in our lives, I'm an Atheist and he's a Pantheist. <br><br>I've had Christians - including a preacher - tell me that I'm a sinner, I'm going to hell, that my child (Calloway) is an abomination, that I've ruined his life because he'll one day look at our wedding photos and realize that I was pregnant. Since we were planning our wedding when I got pregnant, I'm not sure how that makes sense, but it's pretty difficult to reason with someone so stuck in their beliefs. I live in a town that's a mile long and has FIVE (!!) churches. One is across the street from my house. There's a Methodist church, a Southern Baptist church, a non-denom Christian church, a fire & brimstone Christian church, and a Hispanic guy turned an old gas station into a ... Christian church.<br><br>Being religious/spiritual doesn't bother me. I think that a lot of people need the reassurance that there's life beyond death to make it through THIS life. But I can't respect a person that falls back to religion to cover their own bigotry. If a person is going to live by the Bible, then they need to live by the Bible, not just the parts that they like. That includes observing the Sabbath - how many people work on the weekends to put food on their family's table and call themselves Christians? What about showing love, compassion, kindness? And even though they're far out in left field - the Westboro Baptist Church morons with their 'God Hates Fags' signs and funeral protests ... they call themselves Christians, too. And they believe in what they do - which is fine, freedom of speech & all - but they're doing it under the banner of religion. It's SICK.<br><br>I think I went off on a tangent.<br><br>But yeah. Religion is not for me. It's not for everyone. But those of us that don't subscribe to a particular set of religious practices deserve just as much respect as those that do. I will teach my children to be kind and compassionate without the help of religious text. I don't need a book, or a man standing in a pulpit, to tell me how to live my life or raise my children.Katiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14636093180232174770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8816095773055947006.post-87794191803862108202011-04-12T08:02:07.378-04:002011-04-12T08:02:07.378-04:00I'm not a staunch religious person; I do not a...I'm not a staunch religious person; I do not attend church currently though I have off and on over the years. I do believe in God, though it is MY perception of God seen through my experiences and life -- not doctrine the church preaches. I think religions are sometimes exclusionary and negative, and that it is used as a weapon against others. It can also be a great comfort in times of despair and need.<br><br>Everyone gets to choose their path, their beliefs and their faith. That said, I do not believe it is necessary for ANY of us to judge or call names because we don't believe what others do. I believe science can co-exist with faith. I do not believe it is necessary to remove all forms of faith (angels or the Cross) from public venues because it might "offend" someone. Tolerance goes both ways. I am tolerant that you think God does not exist. You are tolerant that I think He does.<br><br>I wish, so very much, that everyone could live and let live. I don't understand why nativity scenes make people angry. I don't understand why wishing someone a Merry Christmas is bad. I have friends of various religions, and friends who are agnostic and atheists, and that is a good thing -- because I think we are all closer in our core beliefs than any of us might know. We all want good ice cream, sunny days, happy lives and love. :-)brainellahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11067167871454642635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8816095773055947006.post-19130642576362953532011-04-12T08:02:07.037-04:002011-04-12T08:02:07.037-04:00Jene, thank you for posting this and being willing...Jene, thank you for posting this and being willing to take on a hard topic. Disclaimer: I'm an agnostic. <br><br>Once upon a time I was atheistic, but once I discovered there was a category for "I don't know wtf happens after I die, and I'll entertain the idea that you're right as much as anyone might be, but I don't intend to change my life to suit your rules", I moved on over to agnosticism. For me the Bible, as other religious texts, are nice stories for people that need someone to give them rules to live by. They make a nice coda to adopt - or cherry-pick from as a person sees fit. <br><br>But for me, thank you but no thank you. I don't need someone else's rules to guide me to be a decent human being - so I don't feel a need for religion or any unseen punishment to live in fear of. I can be a decent person without fear. I can honor and respect other people because I want to, not because the bible says I have to. I plan to live my life according to my terms and if I get an unpleasant surprise in the afterlife, well, I guess I'll be sad about that.<br><br>The initial phrase you caught - something about whether other people acknowledge God or not, him being present in their marriage - struck me a bit wrong as well. I still can't pinpoint exactly what it was, but it did hit me odd. Almost like someone was re-writing my wedding vows in their head to include God even as I was saying them differently. As if the vow I actually said was somehow less important than the one they construed for me. Pushing God onto me rather than listening to the commitment I was ACTUALLY making. I really don't know how to respond to that. But I do frequently wonder for those that insist God is in a marriage, where do they believe he is a divorce?Notahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02616409244912073343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8816095773055947006.post-91696851327902763402010-11-12T23:05:40.575-05:002010-11-12T23:05:40.575-05:00My initial response was "Why?" and I thi...My initial response was "Why?" and I think you know what I mean. You can lead a horse to water and all that jazz.<br /><br />I think we have similar POV's when it comes to religion so while what you wrote was great, you were preaching to the choir. <br /><br />I really enjoyed reading the responses. Once again I am reminded how easily people confuse the original intent of spirituality with our current system of organized religion. I'd discuss it further but at this point it's like beating your head against a brick wall.<br /><br />Also, I fell on blogluv with Nota. She was able to precisely pinpoint the way I feel in regards to religion and the way I wish I could express my views on the subject.Erinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07647839105536630564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8816095773055947006.post-58148500898721679262010-11-10T13:30:55.302-05:002010-11-10T13:30:55.302-05:00I'll also add that the sentence about minds be...I'll also add that the sentence about minds being closed so tightly was interesting also - I took it as just the Firewife is generally uncomfortable with anyone being so strictly closed-minded about anything. But then I know there are people who won't read past my disclaimer in my last comment just because of that disclaimer - and that makes me sad.Cynthiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02616409244912073343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8816095773055947006.post-73137136387395947042010-11-10T13:28:36.046-05:002010-11-10T13:28:36.046-05:00Jene, thank you for posting this and being willing...Jene, thank you for posting this and being willing to take on a hard topic. Disclaimer: I'm an agnostic. <br /><br />Once upon a time I was atheistic, but once I discovered there was a category for "I don't know wtf happens after I die, and I'll entertain the idea that you're right as much as anyone might be, but I don't intend to change my life to suit your rules", I moved on over to agnosticism. For me the Bible, as other religious texts, are nice stories for people that need someone to give them rules to live by. They make a nice coda to adopt - or cherry-pick from as a person sees fit. <br /><br />But for me, thank you but no thank you. I don't need someone else's rules to guide me to be a decent human being - so I don't feel a need for religion or any unseen punishment to live in fear of. I can be a decent person without fear. I can honor and respect other people because I want to, not because the bible says I have to. I plan to live my life according to my terms and if I get an unpleasant surprise in the afterlife, well, I guess I'll be sad about that.<br /><br />The initial phrase you caught - something about whether other people acknowledge God or not, him being present in their marriage - struck me a bit wrong as well. I still can't pinpoint exactly what it was, but it did hit me odd. Almost like someone was re-writing my wedding vows in their head to include God even as I was saying them differently. As if the vow I actually said was somehow less important than the one they construed for me. Pushing God onto me rather than listening to the commitment I was ACTUALLY making. I really don't know how to respond to that. But I do frequently wonder for those that insist God is in a marriage, where do they believe he is a divorce?Cynthiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02616409244912073343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8816095773055947006.post-17854216770936092422010-11-09T14:21:06.627-05:002010-11-09T14:21:06.627-05:00I agree with Matty.I agree with Matty.Jodihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16462664480337935375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8816095773055947006.post-17993321571901010542010-11-09T13:30:02.325-05:002010-11-09T13:30:02.325-05:00You definitely took on a heavy topic. I am a Chris...You definitely took on a heavy topic. I am a Christian, and sometimes the problem that I have is that I get lumped in with "all" Christians, when, really, all it is is that we have the common belief that Jesus is God's son and it is through him that we are saved.<br /><br />But, try to find an entire group of believers who all believe the same thing about the rest of it...and it doesn't happen. <br /><br />I don't ever see the point of being hateful towards one another(just talking in general here) b/c that doesn't ever help prove any sort of point. <br /><br />I do get offended when I am called out for my beliefs, like being told that I am stupid for believing. But, it's also b/c I don't call others out for believing differently than I do. <br /><br />If I can practice tolerance, then I want the same thing in return. <br /><br />I think you just expressed what you believe(or don't) and everyone has the right to do so.Shellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06811697675090627618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8816095773055947006.post-87166904084704771722010-11-09T12:56:03.672-05:002010-11-09T12:56:03.672-05:00I'm not a staunch religious person; I do not a...I'm not a staunch religious person; I do not attend church currently though I have off and on over the years. I do believe in God, though it is MY perception of God seen through my experiences and life -- not doctrine the church preaches. I think religions are sometimes exclusionary and negative, and that it is used as a weapon against others. It can also be a great comfort in times of despair and need.<br /><br />Everyone gets to choose their path, their beliefs and their faith. That said, I do not believe it is necessary for ANY of us to judge or call names because we don't believe what others do. I believe science can co-exist with faith. I do not believe it is necessary to remove all forms of faith (angels or the Cross) from public venues because it might "offend" someone. Tolerance goes both ways. I am tolerant that you think God does not exist. You are tolerant that I think He does.<br /><br />I wish, so very much, that everyone could live and let live. I don't understand why nativity scenes make people angry. I don't understand why wishing someone a Merry Christmas is bad. I have friends of various religions, and friends who are agnostic and atheists, and that is a good thing -- because I think we are all closer in our core beliefs than any of us might know. We all want good ice cream, sunny days, happy lives and love. :-)brainellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11067167871454642635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8816095773055947006.post-36860885600442909442010-11-09T12:23:38.383-05:002010-11-09T12:23:38.383-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Mattyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13979949404266325705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8816095773055947006.post-59364545632038458972010-11-09T12:23:32.808-05:002010-11-09T12:23:32.808-05:00I never discuss religion on my blog, but I will re...I never discuss religion on my blog, but I will respond to articles about it that I see on other blogs. In doing so, I've had people write back saying that they were insulted or offended by what I said. And therein lies the problem of trying to convey your thoughts in written form. The message that you "intend" to get across isn't always how the reader perceives it. And I've had to write back to them trying to clarify my thoughts. But here goes, and hopefully it comes across as I intended it.<br /><br />You said that you find it disrespectful that people insist on inserting their god into everyone' life regardless of their belief system. And hopefully, I'm understanding your point here is that you don't like it when someone expesses their religious beliefs? I'm taking this to mean that you think people should keep their religious views to themselves? If that is what you mean by your statement, then we are talking about freedom of speech and freedom of the press. <br /><br />I might agree or disagree with your religious views, but either way, I have the right to talk about my religious views, AND to write about them. So, if I want to write a post on my blog about my views, that's my constitutional right to do so. Now granted, I understand that as my reader, you might disagree with what I wrote. But I don't think you should find it disrespectful, because it's my right to write about it. Let me tell you, that I frequently read articles on other blogs where I completely and totally disagree with the content. But, and I mean BUT, I don't feel insulted or offended or disrespected by it. Why? Because I recognize that it's their blog, and they can write about anything they want. And I know that when I express my views about anything, be it religion, politics, sports or whatever, someone is going to disagree with me. And I also know that they have several options when they read my content.....respond by comment, or don't respond at all. But I certainly don't take offense when I read something I don't like, and nor do I think my readers should feel insulted or disrespected when they read something that they don't agree with.<br /><br />After all, it's our constitutional right to express our views. <br /><br />So, hopefully I understood the "intent" of your statement that you feel disrespected when you see articles about the belief in God. My issue with what you say is not about any beliefs, but in the right of people to say and write about it.Mattyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13979949404266325705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8816095773055947006.post-84304027042909129012010-11-09T11:11:40.306-05:002010-11-09T11:11:40.306-05:00I was raised as a Southern Baptist, my husband rai...I was raised as a Southern Baptist, my husband raised Methodist, and at this point in our lives, I'm an Atheist and he's a Pantheist. <br /><br />I've had Christians - including a preacher - tell me that I'm a sinner, I'm going to hell, that my child (Calloway) is an abomination, that I've ruined his life because he'll one day look at our wedding photos and realize that I was pregnant. Since we were planning our wedding when I got pregnant, I'm not sure how that makes sense, but it's pretty difficult to reason with someone so stuck in their beliefs. I live in a town that's a mile long and has FIVE (!!) churches. One is across the street from my house. There's a Methodist church, a Southern Baptist church, a non-denom Christian church, a fire & brimstone Christian church, and a Hispanic guy turned an old gas station into a ... Christian church.<br /><br />Being religious/spiritual doesn't bother me. I think that a lot of people need the reassurance that there's life beyond death to make it through THIS life. But I can't respect a person that falls back to religion to cover their own bigotry. If a person is going to live by the Bible, then they need to live by the Bible, not just the parts that they like. That includes observing the Sabbath - how many people work on the weekends to put food on their family's table and call themselves Christians? What about showing love, compassion, kindness? And even though they're far out in left field - the Westboro Baptist Church morons with their 'God Hates Fags' signs and funeral protests ... they call themselves Christians, too. And they believe in what they do - which is fine, freedom of speech & all - but they're doing it under the banner of religion. It's SICK.<br /><br />I think I went off on a tangent.<br /><br />But yeah. Religion is not for me. It's not for everyone. But those of us that don't subscribe to a particular set of religious practices deserve just as much respect as those that do. I will teach my children to be kind and compassionate without the help of religious text. I don't need a book, or a man standing in a pulpit, to tell me how to live my life or raise my children.Katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14636093180232174770noreply@blogger.com